As funny as all of this is - and as fascinated as I am to finally see F52 say something besides endorsing cryptic quotes - it all kind of makes me sad.
It just really brings home how huge that gulf is between two sides, both completely certain that they are right. This article hit the nail on the head for me: http://www.alternet.org/election...
quote: "In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally. Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems. Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive to introspection, questioning, learning, change. When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn’t open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power. The problem isn’t “coastal elites don’t understand rural Americans.” The problem is rural America doesn’t understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble. It doesn’t matter how “understanding” you are, how well you listen, what language you use…if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted. I’ve had hundreds of discussions with rural white Americans and whenever I present them any information that contradicts their entrenched beliefs, no matter how sound, how unquestionable, how obvious, they WILL NOT even entertain the possibility it might be true. "
One thing the author of that article talks about - the only way to shake these fundamentalist beliefs is to bring the consequences to something personal. If someone from that person's trusted circle feels the consequences of some policy decision that's completely at odds with the propaganda, then that might - JUST MIGHT - put a tiny crack in the foundation, and get them to start asking questions.
But, more often than not, these real-world consequences are written off - dumped on the doorstep of convenient scapegoats, or rationalized away with magical thinking of one stripe or another.
Still, it's got me scratching my head and thinking because we are all sitting on the same branch that's being sawed off - we will all fall when that branch breaks. If we going to stop sawing that branch ourselves, and get the powers that be to stop burning the whole dang tree down, we're going to have to stop arguing over who's "right" and work together at some point. I'm just wondering how shitty the situation is going to get before we even start to consider this as an option...
As fun as piling on might be, it's probably not too cool to post something just to ridicule it and make fun of a user. Different people have different points of view and different things to say. Sometimes the only thing that keeps us from understanding someone is the fact that we're privileged enough to not have lived their life.
@tomb When that person makes it a point to delete comments from their post and, up until the missive above, never, not once, engaged with the other members of this community than yes, it is ok to pile on.
When that person espouses ideas that contravene the fundamental rights afforded us by the Constitution and they tout their support for a despotic nincompoop unsuited to be a fucking shoeshine boy let alone hold the highest office in the land then it's ok to pile on.
When that person purports to have known, in advance, that said despotic nincompoop was going to secure the highest office of the land then it's ok to pile on.
There are myriad other reasons why it's ok to pile on to this comment, not least of which is that @thefabulous52 is a Trump supporter, and worse thinks Reagan was good for this country and that Trump will be too, those two, right there, are reason enough to pile on.
Fuck 'em.
Fuck 'em right in their mouth.
This isn't about walking in another's shoes @thefabulous52 wouldn't even acknowledge if you were barefoot in a blizzard let alone have any desire to empathize with the plight of others. They likely wouldn't even give anyone a chance to ask for help. All they'd do is delete the comment.
@tonyb FWIW *That* conversation wasn't about trying to reach *this* person... it was more about the other similarly enamored dupes in this country that one might encounter.
@tonyb that article in your comment is bang-on, and deeply saddening. It's almost - almost - as sad as the piling on. Sorry to have prompted it, as I suspect Fab52 is just another American with unique and deeply-held views and beliefs who loves the power of self-publishing found on the Web, but I'm glad it's leading to this discussion.
A distrust of education and unwillingness to even listen to, let alone empathize with differing points of view, has put fundamentalist America at odds with the rest of us, and led to the current state of affairs.
Fact: Democracy is a messy fucking business, populated by people who hate each other and see no problem in viewing everyone outside their world view as somehow evil or stupid. See the recent poll stating that the majority of Trump voters disbelieve *any* news articles - even from established journalism professionals - that say that Trump lies.
I don't know what's going to have to catch fire and burn to the ground in the world of the know-nothings - and for that matter the hating demagogues among my fellow progressives - for them to wake up to life outside their bubble, but it's going to happen, and I fear we're all going to get singed in the process.
@tonyb I would agree with your long post if we were talking about rational thinking people. Fundamentalist believe what they believe because ~*GOD*~ told them. Their eternal salvation is dependent on following those beliefs to the hilt. Any compromise from those beliefs may result in damnation. Democracy cannot work without compromise. When one side refuses to compromise and then gains power its called something else.
As to your burning tree analogy, If they are hellbent on sawing off the branch we are all sitting in and they refuse to compromise, then maybe its time to knock them off the branch or at least take their saw.
And their comment: "Be forwarned your being reported to Mlkshk for violation of bi-laws cocerning harassment, hate speech & the blocking of free speech due to bias, or bigoted positions held by you. The last violator of these same violations for hasrassement was removed from the Mlkshk site permanetly. This is a free speech site to be used & enjoyed by all faiths, colors & persuasions & not to be controlled by socialist or facists beliefs or actions. If you persist Mlkshk will be notifing you of actions to be taken, thank you."
It just really brings home how huge that gulf is between two sides, both completely certain that they are right. This article hit the nail on the head for me:
http://www.alternet.org/election...
quote: "In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally. Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems. Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive to introspection, questioning, learning, change. When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn’t open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power. The problem isn’t “coastal elites don’t understand rural Americans.” The problem is rural America doesn’t understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble. It doesn’t matter how “understanding” you are, how well you listen, what language you use…if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted. I’ve had hundreds of discussions with rural white Americans and whenever I present them any information that contradicts their entrenched beliefs, no matter how sound, how unquestionable, how obvious, they WILL NOT even entertain the possibility it might be true. "
One thing the author of that article talks about - the only way to shake these fundamentalist beliefs is to bring the consequences to something personal. If someone from that person's trusted circle feels the consequences of some policy decision that's completely at odds with the propaganda, then that might - JUST MIGHT - put a tiny crack in the foundation, and get them to start asking questions.
But, more often than not, these real-world consequences are written off - dumped on the doorstep of convenient scapegoats, or rationalized away with magical thinking of one stripe or another.
Still, it's got me scratching my head and thinking because we are all sitting on the same branch that's being sawed off - we will all fall when that branch breaks. If we going to stop sawing that branch ourselves, and get the powers that be to stop burning the whole dang tree down, we're going to have to stop arguing over who's "right" and work together at some point. I'm just wondering how shitty the situation is going to get before we even start to consider this as an option...
When that person espouses ideas that contravene the fundamental rights afforded us by the Constitution and they tout their support for a despotic nincompoop unsuited to be a fucking shoeshine boy let alone hold the highest office in the land then it's ok to pile on.
When that person purports to have known, in advance, that said despotic nincompoop was going to secure the highest office of the land then it's ok to pile on.
There are myriad other reasons why it's ok to pile on to this comment, not least of which is that @thefabulous52 is a Trump supporter, and worse thinks Reagan was good for this country and that Trump will be too, those two, right there, are reason enough to pile on.
Fuck 'em.
Fuck 'em right in their mouth.
This isn't about walking in another's shoes @thefabulous52 wouldn't even acknowledge if you were barefoot in a blizzard let alone have any desire to empathize with the plight of others. They likely wouldn't even give anyone a chance to ask for help. All they'd do is delete the comment.
Unless you're a fab52 supporter, in which case that is totally not for you.
I just wanted to make that clear ;-P
Also I fully appreciate your input, sincerely.
A distrust of education and unwillingness to even listen to, let alone empathize with differing points of view, has put fundamentalist America at odds with the rest of us, and led to the current state of affairs.
Fact: Democracy is a messy fucking business, populated by people who hate each other and see no problem in viewing everyone outside their world view as somehow evil or stupid. See the recent poll stating that the majority of Trump voters disbelieve *any* news articles - even from established journalism professionals - that say that Trump lies.
I don't know what's going to have to catch fire and burn to the ground in the world of the know-nothings - and for that matter the hating demagogues among my fellow progressives - for them to wake up to life outside their bubble, but it's going to happen, and I fear we're all going to get singed in the process.
also - I just couldn't resist the chance to use a FIGHT CLUB reference ;)
As to your burning tree analogy, If they are hellbent on sawing off the branch we are all sitting in and they refuse to compromise, then maybe its time to knock them off the branch or at least take their saw.
@mrcrashdavis Thanks again for the extension! (It's not secretly monitoring my web activity, is it?)
@ritzer It's really good. I think I became a paid user of MLKSHK only after that extension became available.
https://mltshp.com/p/181SM
And their comment:
"Be forwarned your being reported to Mlkshk for violation of bi-laws cocerning harassment, hate speech & the blocking of free speech due to bias, or bigoted positions held by you. The last violator of these same violations for hasrassement was removed from the Mlkshk site permanetly. This is a free speech site to be used & enjoyed by all faiths, colors & persuasions & not to be controlled by socialist or facists beliefs or actions. If you persist Mlkshk will be notifing you of actions to be taken, thank you."